[LittleReg1]

Trying to backup my library to Google Drive but getting a failure message that begins with "var/mobile/Containers/Application...".  Since there is no other information provided (typical of computer software developers' attitude toward their customers), I'm wondering if anyone here has had a similar problem and how you fixed it.

Thanks.

[Geoff Bacon]

The lack of information is error message is not necessarily down to a "software developer attitude"; it is more likely that they have recognised that an error has occurred but, without an in depth knowledge of Google Drive, they display what little information that they have.

Anyway, Mike is not like  a "typical software developer".

While you wait for him to respond, I suggest you perform a local backup on your device and try manually transferring that to Google Drive. Should that fail to transfer, you have an issue outside of MS and, if it suceeds, you do at least have a backup there.

Geoff

[LittleReg1]

Geoff:  The application knows exactly what it was attempting to do when it failed.  The error could have told me that it was trying to write to Google Drive and Google Drive was preventing it.  It cxould have told me that the backup set was too large and it ran out of space.  It could have told me that there was a failure on my iPad when attempting to assemble the cache file.  It could have told me that one (or more) of the songs that it was trying to back up were corrupted and could not be read from.  It could have told me that Google Drive was refusing access and that credentials were needed (although I don't know why the process wouldn't check this before it started).

When I posted here, I expected an experienced user would come back and say, "This is a known issue and this is the workaround."  Or even: "You're not using the application properly.  Go back and read the manual." Instead, we've got to pretend that despite the fact that backing up to Google Drive is a standard part of the application's feature set (i.e., user is not attempting to do something untried and/or unsanctioned), the error I'm experiencing has never occurred before - either in testing or in practice.  This is highly unlikely.

In "The Essential Guide to User Interface Design" by Wilbert O. Galitz (3rd Ed., Wiley Publishing, 2007), p. 573, (considered since 1984 the "bible" of U/I design), the author details the constituents of an error message, which include providing user the precise point where the process failed, avoiding technical jargon (e.g., error codes), and providing as much background information as possible to assist user in remediating the issue, including known workarounds and links to online resources.  In other words, "An error has occurred" or "The process failed" are wholly rude and improper ways of treating users.  (Providing error logging, too, wouldn't hurt.)

The logic that if I back up to my iPad and still cannot upload to Google Drive does not necessarily mean that I do not have a problem with the application.  When vendors offer feature sets as part of the licenses that customers purchase, customers have the right to expect that these will work until and unless it can be shown that the issue is indeed "outisde of MS".  For example, there could be something about the backup process that Google flags as illegitimate.  There could be the case where Google lets user backup directly but not via MS.  Regardless, if the vendor has told users that they can back up directly to Google Drive, then we should be able to do so, or at least be provided official doco as to how to get around Google's idiosyncracies.  If not, then don't offer the feature in the first place.

How this all plays out is that there is a difference between a "technical" solution (such as backing up locally) and a practical one (actually getting the backed up file to Google Drive).  MS offers only four options for backing up:  local, Dropbox, Google, OneDrive.  On an iPad, "Local" means:  sending to iCloud. Even if there's another way to configure this, I can't find it, and now I'm sent down a rabbit hole of trying to figure out how to get a backup file that has been stored in iCloud over to Google Drive.  In other words, I cannot tell MS to send the backup to "On My iPad" because whatever it's internal instructions are for "Local", it won't let me choose what local.

Thanks.

[Zubersoft]

LittleReg1 - when it comes to errors with cloud services, I usually output the error the service returned me, but a lot of the time this is going to just be an exception message that is not going to be meaningful to users in any way and according to the book you felt the need to quote, is "technical jargon". These cloud service libraries can have tens of thousands of lines of code, which is all obfuscated and hidden from me, so I don't have any more information about the error than what is returned (which is sometimes very little). It sounds to me, based on the small amount of information you provided, that the upload failed for some reason. My code is probably triggering a single line of code, which may be something like: service.upload(file). If that fails, what other information do you think I have access to that I could be providing to the user? The upload failed, the service may not have provided any meaningful information, so I output that the upload failed. Implying that my lack of messaging to the user is because of my "attitude toward my customers" is quite an aggressive thing to say considering I always make my customers my number one priority. There are certainly areas where I can try to improve the error reporting and add additional logging options, but everything comes at a cost. If I'm focused on working on improving those things, then I'm not working on implementing the features that users are asking for. I will certainly try to make time for improving the error reporting where possible in the future though.

A simple workaround is to use the "Local File" option, create the backup on the device, and then optionally upload it to the service using the Google Drive app or web browser to see if that works better for you. If you select "Local File", with Apple's file picker, there is a "On my iPad" option on the left side. Selecting that will let you save on the device itself, not on iCloud. 

Mike

[GraemeJ]

LittleReg1

You have just two threads on this forum, both of them being somewhat aggressive.

I will tell you what Mike has been too polite to say - WIND YOUR NECK IN!

There are thousands of users who are extremely happy with this software and even happier with the support they get from Mike - who, I might remind you, is a solo developer trying to keep many balls in the air on three different platforms.

If you remain on your present aggressive course, I suggest you find another app and see just how little support you will get.

[Cerio]

I've had this issue in the past as well (in my experience integration between cloud services like Google drive and third party apps is usually less solid than using the native apps directly), but never considered it a serious problem at all: instead of uploading the backup file directly to google drive, you just need to generate a local backup file and then uploading it using the the native Google Drive app. 

The workaround is not only incredibly easy, but also better, bacause in case of failure (backup files are usually several gigabytes in size, and uploading large files often results in errors) you have already a phisical backup file on your device. 

I see no drama here, really.  

On the other hand, I must say that, as anyone who has been here for a while knows, Mike's support has always been first class.

[GraemeJ]

Mike's support has always been first class.

Precisely my point.  If this guy is so smart, let him code his own app.

[Zubersoft]

I really appreciate the support Geoff, Graeme and Cerio. I will say that it's not always a bad thing for me to be challenged on these topics (although I always prefer civil discourse about it). I went back through the code, and have modified it so that the exception returned by the cloud service will just be displayed to the user. While this isn't going to mean anything to most users, it will at least give them something to report back to me. So good can come from these kinds of discussions, but I certainly prefer it if people didn't assume bad intent and just worked with me to help make the app better.

Mike

[GraemeJ]

I will say that it's not always a bad thing for me to be challenged on these topics....

No it's a good thing - that's the means by which the software is improved/expanded on.

It's the manner of the challenge that concerns me.  This is the second time I've had to call out a forum member for unnecessarily aggressive posts.  I've been here for a long time and it's only recently that these sort of posts have emerged.

You are doing a great job and I wouldn't like to have the stress of staying on top of everything in the way you do.  I'm sure you have the full support of all of us.