[erhe]

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[Zubersoft]

It depends on what the key of the song is that you have specified in the txt file (otherwise MobileSheets will rely on the setting under Settings->Text File Settings->Detect Key By to figure out what the key of the song is), and whether you have selected the "Sharp" or "Flat" button to control how the transposing is applied. B# and C are the same so I don't really know why that matters. I'll need more of an explanation for that one. Is there a reason you are transposing in the editor versus just transposing the song through the overlay?

Mike

[erhe]

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[BRX]

Geez, maybe you indeed "live in a culture that I don't find normal or acceptable" to quote yourself from another thread. Even in case you had a point in your arguments there's no reason to attack responders as aggressively and impolitely as you did in the last two posts I read from you.

[Zubersoft]

There's a lot I don't know about music theory. When I see something like C/E, I assume we are talking about a slash chord (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_chord) in regards to a txt or ChordPro file, which just changes the bass note. If you have a proposed algorithm or method for handling transposing that works for any scenario, please send it my way and I'll be happy to review it and make changes if needed. Does the main ChordPro application handle whatever it is you are wanting?

In regards to the initial post, the key of F uses flats, not sharps. So the algorithm defaults to using flats for tranposing chords. There have been many conversations over the years about how transposing is handle in MobileSheets, and the current implementation is what was developed based on feedback from many people. No one else has complained about it or said it works incorrectly. You are the first to do so in a long time. I'm not saying you are wrong - but I need to hear more feedback and receive more information about how the implementation needs to change to match what you are wanting. I should also add that transposing in the editor may work differently from transposing when just viewing the score normally, which is why I suggested you might want to try that to see if it helps you get the result you want.

I do agree that you are being quite aggressive and impolite though. I do want to help you, so I wish you wouldn't assume bad intent.

Mike

[itsme]

@BRX: well spoken

@erhe: it's like it is in music: the tone matters

@Mike:
Transposing displayed songs has gone through many iterations and works really fine. But transposing in the text editor has several issues, see 
https://www.zubersoft.com/mobilesheets/f...13197.html

[erhe]

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[Zubersoft]

Thanks - I look forward to reviewing the algorithm. I do want Johan (sciurius) to be a part of this conversation as well, because the ChordPro application behaves in the exact same way. If I have a song with a [B/D#] chord and I apply {transpose: -2}, the output shows A/Db.  If I transpose with -3 (to the key of E), it then shows Ab/C, just like MobileSheets. So the two applications are behaving identically. If the approach is fundamentally wrong, then both applications need to be fixed to transpose in the correct manner. My code is not set up to handle B# as a valid chord I believe, so that's something that would have to change, but it definitely creates a lot of annoying problems, as it's still not clear to me when I would use B# versus C in all situations. 

Mike

[Lawrie]

<snip>
My code is not set up to handle B# as a valid chord I believe, so that's something that would have to change, but it definitely creates a lot of annoying problems, as it's still not clear to me when I would use B# versus C in all situations. 
</snip>

Hi Mike, it's just my 2c worth, but I wouldn't necessarily do that.

While erhe is technically correct (and I agree with much of what they have presented), it's my observation that such constructs usually aren't helpful to someone sight reading, or otherwise not very familiar with, a piece.  This is especially true for weekend warriors.

Where the enharmonic equivalent is a sharp or flat (E.G. C# instead of Db or vice versa) then it usually makes little practical difference for the player whereas B# instead of C, or Fb instead of E etc. commonly takes more time to process and can thus more strongly impact the flow of a performance*.  Of course this isn't necessarily true of every player as some are more analytical than others, yet ease of interpretation usually equates to a faster response.

You are not going to be able to please everyone.  It seems to me the best choice is to please the majority as well as you can.

* some pedants may disagree 

[itsme]

We should be aware that there are different cases to consider:
Transposing the displayed song vs. transposing in the text editor. Both is possible with ChordPro files and with .txt files. ChordPro files can additionally contain chord grid and ABC sections.
When we report issues it's crucial to mention which situation we are talking about, sample files might be of help.

My findings so far:

Transposing ChordPro files in song display works fine, including ABC and chord grid sections. There are only very minor questions: if handling accidentals for the whole song with the sharp / flat buttons is sufficient and if replacing E# / Fb / B# / Cb with their enharmonics is OK. For my personal use cases there's no need to change something. I'm curious if erhe really is able to come up with a better algorithm.

Transposing ChordPro files in text editor is confusingly buggy, see https://www.zubersoft.com/mobilesheets/f...13197.html  as mentioned before. This should be fixed to work as similar as possible to transposing in song display.

I have not yet investigated in detail the behaviour when .txt files are used. I always use ChordPro.

[sciurius]

Just a couple of remarks.

"A/Db" is blatantly wrong.

If we are considering an A chord with its major third in the bass (aka. 1st inversion) out of context I tend to agree that "A/C#" looks more natural.
However, when it is part of a chord progression in a piece written in the key of Ab or Db, I think "A/Db" looks more natural.

"The key of F uses flats" is a misconception and not true at all. The key signature has one flat, yes, but it does not mean that there should only be flats in the song.

No doubt you have noticed that there are no chords with sharps in the Yesterday example. Browsing through my Real Books I have never seen a sharp in a chord in a song that is in a flat key.

Having non-flats in the song itself is possible. IIRC, the Yesterday example shows something called a transient key change in the 2nd measure.

In songs in D minor - with the same key signature of one flat - it is common to have A major or A7 chords with C# notes

Of course you can have "chords with sharps" in a song with a flat key, but that is not related to the issue at hand.

Summarizing, I'd opt for writing the chords and bass according to the key of the song.

[Swiss1000]

<snip>
My code is not set up to handle B# as a valid chord I believe, so that's something that would have to change, but it definitely creates a lot of annoying problems, as it's still not clear to me when I would use B# versus C in all situations. 
</snip>

Hi Mike, it's just my 2c worth, but I wouldn't necessarily do that.

While erhe is technically correct (and I agree with much of what they have presented), it's my observation that such constructs usually aren't helpful to someone sight reading, or otherwise not very familiar with, a piece.  This is especially true for weekend warriors.

Where the enharmonic equivalent is a sharp or flat (E.G. C# instead of Db or vice versa) then it usually makes little practical difference for the player whereas B# instead of C, or Fb instead of E etc. commonly takes more time to process and can thus more strongly impact the flow of a performance*.  Of course this isn't necessarily true of every player as some are more analytical than others, yet ease of interpretation usually equates to a faster response.

You are not going to be able to please everyone.  It seems to me the best choice is to please the majority as well as you can.

* some pedants may disagree 

I agree, pedantry is a luxury for poor minds. And in some situations, you should have to say Cb for musical pedantry... ("All The Think you Are" by exemple)

It is usual to say Ab in place of G# despite the key, and all musicians aggree and don't have problems with that...

[sciurius]

Summarizing, I'd opt for writing the chords and bass according to the key of the song.

I had a little chat with a friend of mine who is professional (educated) musician, and she explained to me it is convention to write the bass note in the key of the chord, not the song.

So I was wrong in this case. I keep learning all the time...

[Zubersoft]

So we can just change the logic to look at the key of the chord and if it is a sharp key, make the bass note sharp as well (and the same for flats)?

Mike

[erhe]

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